Alligator Alley

I believe Fisher is not only equal to Meyer in recruiting but in evaluating recruits as well.

But in the mean time is it not okay to measure head to head battles? A gator fan may not like it, but FSU getting JWJ after everyone had basically conceded him to UF is a true recruiting victory. Just like UF getting Percy Harvin or Clemson stealing C.J Spiller from both of us. Its a situation where a school that was a favorite, got beat out . .. is that not true?

We can't compare on field success yet obviously but in recruiting its kind of hard to ignore. Had Urban Meyer gotten Christian Green or Christian Jones last year, Gators would be saying the same thing. This was a head to head recruiting battle.

What does his 0-0 record have to do with recruiting and evaluating?

There's more to this game than recruiting and evaluating. See Ron Zook. Lets see what he does with this superior talent and superior evaulating. Gotta coach em up on Saturdays.

Ok but that's my point, why is it a big deal that UF finished second for Green and Jones? Shouldn't it say something about where FSU is headed if they actually WON Wilder?

And like you said, Meyer gets into those doors because he coaches a winning program. FSU has been damn near .500 in 3 of the last 4 seasons and still pulls in quality recruiting classes dating back to 2008. Everyone is blowing the talent gap between UF and FSU out of proportion. The issue at FSU has been development and structure more so than the ability to bring in the right players. That's what is expected to be the biggest difference in Fisher and Bowden of the last decade.

Just because you worked as a position coach or a coordinator under a great coach doesn't exactly translate into success as a head coach. Of Bear Bryant's assistant coaches who became head coaches --- and that numbers somewhere around 40 --- very few were truly successful. Gene Stallings and Danny Ford both won national championships but their titles are tainted with NCAA probation.

Now, granted, Jimbo has worked for Nick Saban but why should Gators be afraid of someone just because he's worked for Nick? Last time I checked, Florida is 1-1 against Nick at Alabama and both Urban and Nick each have a national championship following their win. Of course, this is the same Nick Saban, who with Jimbo Fisher as his offensive coordinator, scored all of seven points against Ron Zook and Florida in 2003, the same year that LSU won the national championship.

Now, I think Jimbo is going to do very well, but he's still got to prove he can be a head coach. You could say the same thing about nearly every head coach in Division I --- at some point he was successful either as a coordinator or a position coach --- but that doesn't always translate into success as a head coach.

Again, I think Jimbo has good coaching bloodlines and can be successful, but before we anoint him as equal to or better than a coach with the best winning percentage of any head coach in the country (that's Urban) --- a coach who has an undefeated season and two 13-1 national championship seaons to his credit --- how about letting him prove himself on the field?

Insecurity? Oh please. Now you've done it and made me laugh.

And what reason is there to think that Jimbo Fisher can do it? Just because he won a recruiting battle? Oh please. Spare me.

I think he will do well but it's one recruiting battle that he's won. He hasn't beaten Urban Meyer on the playing field yet and the talent gap between the two programs is canyonesque. Maybe you don't think so, but the people who scout for the NFL do.

Jimbo has a monumental task ahead of him. If you had asked me 10 years ago if FSU's program could slip this far, I would have laughed at you, but having watched the deterioration of the program the last six years, it's going to be a long, hard haul and it doesn't help that FSU is in the ACC. The turnaround would be more difficult in the short term in the SEC but the benefit would be getting superior athletes top to bottom of the recruiting classes.

And, if Jimbo is as good as you say he is, then you better watch out because Les Miles just might not be at LSU next year and if he goes, you better believe Jimbo Fisher will be on the radar in Baton Rouge. And you better believe this --- if offered a top of the line SEC job, he would leave FSU in a heartbeat.

Going back 20 years are we? How about 18 in the ACC.

Your Noles lost two games in the ACC the first nine seasons, the second nine you lose 25. The last four seasons your spear chuckers have gone 16-16 in conference play, that's real wins and loses not after the NCAA math is applied.

This is in the mighty ACC over 18 years. In 17 years in the SEC Steve Spurrier and Urban Meyer totaled 119-22. There is no doubt the SEC is more difficult.

So where is the insecurity?

The idiotic claim of Jimbo 1, Meyer 0 reeks with insecurity. Making comments like that is what you call diversionary tactics. Dazzle them with bull, try and throw them off with an insult but offer up no real stats to back up your claims.

FSU's recruiting the past five years, rankings by the three main services.

The facts are FSU has recruited well enough to be very competitive...

WHO - 2010 - 2009 - 2008 - 2007 - 2006
Scout - - 9th - 18th - - 8th - - 33rd - 12th
Rivals - - 10th - 7th - - 9th - - 21st - 3rd
ESPN - - 6th - 8th - - 12th -- 25th - 6th

Signed... Average Ranking
2010 - 24 - 8.3
2009 - 21 - 11.0
2008 - 30 - 9.7
2007 - 20 - 26.0
2006 - 31 - 7.0

The facts are for FSU - AP - USA

2009 - not in the top 25
2008 - 21st - 23rd
2007 - not in the top 25
2006 - not in the top 25
2005 - 23rd - 23rd

It just isn't getting done in Tally...

I think I pointed out the fact that recruiting wasn't the problem in several post. Also remember that the idiotic claim of Jimbo 1, Meyer 0 was made by Bianchi who hates the Seminoles more than beat writer around.

I've said numerous times in this very thread that FSU's problem was coaching, not talent. The talent claim is what you guys have been spewing the entire time. You can bring in all the great high school talent you want but if they don't develop and progress from year to year and aren't put in a scheme that's advantageous and beneficial to their skill set, they'll look like garbage in college and that's what has been going on at FSU for the last 9 solid years. You keep posting information that everyone has already discussed at length, we know what the recruiting classes have been, we know what the results on the field have been. So, when it comes to making a very very basic formula for winning can we agree that both coaching and players need to be good? FSU has had good players, a lot of them. And a lot of them have been wasted by coaches like Jeff Bowden, Jodi Allen, Chuck Amato, Dexter Carter and unfortunately a DC in Mickey Andrews who wanted to retire after his son blew his brains out in 2007 but was begged to come back. Our scheme has been outdated, our program was still following and going through the motions it did 10 years ago when obviously, the landscape of CFB has completely changed. Ironically, when FSU changes to a coaching staff with modernized coaching and a better understanding of how to be successful today, UF fans still expect the exact same results. If Bobby Bowden and his staff had come back for another year, it would make sense. But you don't change as many factors and variables as FSU has and continue to get the same results.

Again, your ACC vs. SEC argument continues to fall on def ears because your entire rant didn't present any new information. FSU as a PROGRAM struggled and because of that, they lost games. Overall, the SEC is a better conference than the ACC, this is not groundbreaking news. But FSU is a better football program/coaching job and opportunity than the MAJORITY of SEC teams. Its not a better job than UF, Alabama etc. But the argument can be made for literally every other team in that conference because of the reasons I listed. Believe it or not, every team, coach, fan, player won't just wither away and die if they aren't in the SEC. Also note that I said the last 20 years and you posted the last 5, which are most popularly known for being the "lost decade" for FSU. Success at Florida State could've continued without much of a hiccup through the past decade if Coach Bowden didn't hire his son and actually bothered looking for a competent replacement for Mark Richt. Our recent failure isn't indicative of some inherent failure that FSU is destined to have, its plain negligence and lazy work by those in charge of the program. It would happen at UF if Urban Meyer got sloppy, it would happen at Bama if Saban got sloppy. I use the word "insecurity" when I describe Gators because you speak as if they universe owes you the satisfaction of continuing to see FSU fail. We fixed the whole in the ship and you guys will reach and grasp at every single excuse you can think of as to why we'll continue to fail. Its all wishful thinking. The fact is that SO FAR, Jimbo Fisher is making the right moves and you're HOPING he sucks as a head coach, but you're not sure in the least.

True. But I would say the "Jimbo Fisher 1, Urban Meyer 0" scorecard is a little disingenuous as well. Heck, FSU didn't even beat Florida 1-0 on Wednesday.

A verbal commitment in August is not the same as a signed LOI in February. The Fat Lady is yet to sing. We shall see.