Online Now 1121

Alligator Alley

For Gators Fans Only. What's said on the Alley, stays on the Alley

On this Board 740
Record: 4558 (2/6/2013)

Online now 1314
Record: 4974 (2/6/2013)

Reply

Jimbo Fisher 1, Urban Meyer 0

  • Opinions are like you-know-whats... everybody has one...

    We just have differing opinions. That's all.

    1. Nick kept the reigns on. Look at the track record. LSU's offense got better with Fisher. Was it #1 in the country every year? No. Didn't have to be. They won games. That's the way Nick wanted to win. He's the head coach. Fisher coached 4 of the top 5 passers in Auburn history. The 5th? He won the Heisman. FSU's offenses have drastically improved since the Jeff Bowden days. Who led the ACC in total offense last year?

    2. I didn't say Jimbo was Nick Saban. And, I didn't say he was a better head coach than Meyer. I said he's a better recruiter. And he has a better recruiting staff. We will soon find out what kind of head coach he is... I think he's going be pretty good.

    3. We talk to different people. The folks I talk to, in college and the NFL, think FSU has a far superior staff right now. We're not talking about Florida's staff last year. We're talking right now. There are some guys who don't belong. That's all I'm saying.

    4. You're right. We'll see what happens in five years, after Meyer has been retired for four of those... which is entirely possible...

    The points you make are valid. Florida is in a better conference and has more money. And those things matter. However, they don't matter as much as the impression the coach leaves on the family. I worked at Auburn, LSU, Florida and Southern Miss. We signed the #1 class in the country when I was at LSU. We signed top 5 classes at Florida. We signed the top class in the the conference every year I was at USM. What mattered most? The relationships and how the parents felt about the relationship with the head coach. Jimbo Fisher wins that battle hands down. Every time. Not even close. So, when you're talking about a kid whose family is involved in the decision, FSU will win most of those battles. Those kids are usually better teammates as well. That makes you a better team.

    One more point: "Bottom line is Jimbo BETTER win half the recruiting battles because if he doesn't he will fail."

    That quote is wrong. Jimbo doesn't have to win even half of those recruiting battles to be considered a success. You make the point that Florida is in a tougher conference. That's true. If FSU wins 40% of the recruiting battles with Florida, it wins the ACC every year and is likely guaranteed a 10 win season. That's a success.

    One more thing: that tougher SEC schedule leaves a team more beat up at season's end. Even at 40% on the recruiting trail, FSU will be on equal footing on the football field by late November. And what happens when FSU starts beating Florida more regularly? Recruiting gets easier, which makes those regular season ACC games a little easier. Pretty soon, the pendulum has swung back the other way...

    Defeat doesn't finish a man - quit does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits. - Richard Nixon

    Ron Sanders

  • Why is Fisher commenting on a recruit? Shall we call him Dumbo Fisher or Fishy Kiffy?

    PrincetonGator

  • He didn't comment on a recruit. He was speaking in general about what it means to land a big name recruit.

    Defeat doesn't finish a man - quit does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits. - Richard Nixon

    Ron Sanders

  • Jimbo can win the ACC every year but if he doesn't beat Urban Meyer, they will run his butt out of Tallahassee on a rail. If he's going to beat Urban Meyer and the Gators he better be winning more than 40 percent of the recruiting battles because Urban Meyer is the best systematic recruiter I've seen in more than 40 years of writing about sports.

    Email: franzbeard@gmail.com/Twitter: www.twitter.com/@franzbeard247

    Franz Beard ●

  • It's gonna be hard to beat somebody who's retired.

    Defeat doesn't finish a man - quit does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits. - Richard Nixon

    Ron Sanders

  • Semi fans keep hoping he's going to retire. It's their only hope of beating him. He's going to take Jimbo to the woodshed this year and every year after. I would bank on it. There is a reason Urban is 15-1 in rivalry games in his coaching career.

    Email: franzbeard@gmail.com/Twitter: www.twitter.com/@franzbeard247

    Franz Beard ●

  • Ron, you need to stop drinking the Kool-Ade.

    bossgator

  • Man I love a good pissing contest between two experts...have at it guys...both of you have valid points

    iustawuzIUx0

  • Franz Beard said...

    Semi fans keep hoping he's going to retire. It's their only hope of beating him. He's going to take Jimbo to the woodshed this year and every year after. I would bank on it. There is a reason Urban is 15-1 in rivalry games in his coaching career.

    We shall see...

    Last I checked, Auburn is a traditional rival. Maybe Urban's too new school to remember, but when I was growing up, that was a pretty big game. His record's not too good against the Tigers...

    That said, our point is well taken. However, let's not forget, that record was built on Ron Zook's back (at least the first 3 years were)... No question Meyer has done a terrific job, but he doesn't walk on water.

    Defeat doesn't finish a man - quit does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits. - Richard Nixon

    Ron Sanders

  • Ron Sanders said...

    We shall see...

    Last I checked, Auburn is a traditional rival. Maybe Urban's too new school to remember, but when I was growing up, that was a pretty big game. His record's not too good against the Tigers...

    That said, our point is well taken. However, let's not forget, that record was built on Ron Zook's back (at least the first 3 years were)... No question Meyer has done a terrific job, but he doesn't walk on water.

    Florida does not play Auburn every year, so they simply do not fall into that rivalry status that is given to Florida State, Georgia, and Tennessee any more.

    Even LSU plays Florida every year. At this point, they are a bigger rival than Auburn. Meyer is 3-2 against the Bayou Bengals.

    No one in Gainesville thinks that Meyer walks on water...but his success as a coach has been sustained for a decade now at three different stops now. It is what it is.

    Justin Wells

  • I worked at Auburn, LSU, Florida and Southern Miss. We signed the #1 class in the country when I was at LSU. We signed top 5 classes at Florida. We signed the top class in the the conference every year I was at USM. What mattered most? The relationships and how the parents felt about the relationship with the head coach. Jimbo Fisher wins that battle hands down. Every time. Not even close. So, when you're talking about a kid whose family is involved in the decision, FSU will win most of those battles. Those kids are usually better teammates as well. That makes you a better team.

    What?

    Ronnie...like you said, we all have opinions and that doesn't mean they are right or wrong. This line is just an opinion. Just like what you said earlier in this thread that people don't like Meyer as a person, they like him as a coach. I call BS on this one, too.

    For example, I have an opinion on Nick Saban...it's not a positive one, and I think it's shared by a lot of other people who have never had the chance to spend a lot of time around him. You probably think differently of him and that's fine. You've actually worked with him, I haven't. But I would also suggest that the same can probably be said of what you think of Urban Meyer and how that opinion (which has likely been shaped by what your coaching contacts say about him, and what the media perception of him has been) differs from those who have worked for him and played under him. Paradigms differ greatly depending on experiences.

    That's the same case with Fisher. You've worked with him. So you do have a good perspective on how the guy operates. But on the same token you haven't worked with Meyer. How do you know how Urban presents himself in a parent's living room? I'd say the results speak for themselves during his five years in Gainesville.

    To be frank, the opinion of Urban Meyer that matters isn't what you think, I think, the media thinks or the fans think. It's what the high school coaches and prospects in the state of Florida (and beyond) think, and generally, the response is pretty darned good.

    I'll use an example of a recent commitment to Florida (won't say who). He has an assistant coach who was very involved in the recruiting process with him. The guy LOVES Urban Meyer, and also said he was pleasantly surprised with the way Jimbo presented himself as well. Likes both equally, but notes that they get it done a little differently. Urban is a little more intense, Jimbo is a little more laid-back. Some people will be more attracted to Urban's personality, others will be more inclined to go with Jimbo. We'll see which one is more effective in the coming years.

    This is Jimbo's first go-around as a head coach, so it's a little different now than it was the past few years he was on the FSU staff as an assistant. But he has been going up against Florida for top guys for some time now. Florida has won more of those battles than they have lost. So, to say Jimbo wins the battle with Meyer every time and it's not even close...Urban has been winning plenty of battles against coaches from around the country for some time now. I mean, that's not something you can just ignore. Meyer and his staff have beat plenty of coaches known for being "great guys" (i.e. Pete Carroll, Jim Tressell, Mack Brown, Bobby Bowden, etc.) for recruits in recent years. Are you telling me Jimbo Fisher is going to come across better to kids and parents than Pete Carroll did at USC? I would be surprised if that is the case. (And yes, I realize there were some shady things going on at USC...but Pete Carroll's acumen and reputation as a recruiter is still second to none).

    I do agree that FSU is going to be more formidable on the recruiting trail now that Jimbo is in charge and they have the current staff assembled (which is a good group). But Florida is well on their way to landing another top-five recruiting class. Let's get to February, see where all of these guys sign (including James Wilder), and then maybe we can make a better analysis of how everyone is doing and who is winning the head-to-head battles.

    Justin Wells

  • Excuse me, how do you know Fisher wins that battle over Urban Meyer? What do you know of Meyer?

    He's a relationship builder too. He believes very strongly in it.

    Many years ago a brother in law of mine told me to not bet emotionally. I had never heard that before, making an emotional bet. Built on what I want or who I dislike rather than trying to make a sane rational decision.

    Florida has the talent, in the last five years plus this recruiting class the Gators have 71 top 150 type players to 31 for FSU. And the bulk of Florida's players are in the upper 150 of those lists.

    You can not point to Jimbo Fisher 1 Urban Meyer 0, where does that put the Gators 2009 class with Ronald Powell. The other defensive linemen he recruited, the offensive linemen.

    I played football, I've watched it for 40 years. I've studied it for 25 years, followed recruiting for 25 years, traveled to watch recruits for that time until they started being on TV and the internet.

    It's all a matter of opinion. When I started trying to write anything I said was pure emotion with very little rational thinking. Now I try hard to be fair and rational even though I write about the team I also root for and love.

    I've said Florida is going to piss a lot of people off this year because a lot of people hope they will fail. They aren't going to fail.

    I would like FSU to be strong again, right now the FSU game means nothing. They can't compete.

    All I hear is a lot of wishful thinking. FSU wasn't good last year, Ponder was 4-5 last year before he got hurt. Now because Bowden has moved on, Mickey Andrews, now there is going to be that big turn around.

    It isn't going to happen. They don't have the horses. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

    It's nice to be loyal to old friends but blind loyalty isn't something I participate in. Too unrealistic.

    I like a lot of things about Urban Meyer but there are some things I wish he did better. I don't think he likes the joe blow type fan at all. He's crippled the once thriving Gator Clubs, he tolerates the press.

    Foley has been pretty good to me but I hear a lot of things about him and some people can't stand him. I don't like they way Florida tries to control everything, one long time Gator journalist says Florida is the worst school in the country for access.

    I've pretty much been on the outside my entire career, followed their rules and in that time I got a couple of media guide from them. That's it.

    Will that blind my view of what they have this fall and the recruiting machine they've set in motion? Fisher hired a running back coach who left Tennessee after being with Kiffin one year. He sold a highly egocentric young man on how he can make him become a great running back.

    I think the kid can be very special, but he could choose a better football team to play on.

    His own father talked to Justin about picking an up and coming team, and if they don't up and come then his son will have to live with his decision.

    Too funny, what I like about certain salary levels is they can put you in a position where you are not job scared.

    Swampie

  • Sounds like a Gator Hater

    I sincerely believe you are blinded by your loyalties...

    Swampie

  • No hating here. Just stating my opinion. If anyone is blinded by loyalties, it may be you my friend. I'm not a Florida or an FSU grad. But, I do know coaches. And I know what the perceptions and realities of the coaching world are better than most because I've lived in that world. I've been fired after pouring my heart and soul into a program. That's part of the job. But my opinions are based on my personal experiences and observations and the observations of those I know and trust in the profession. They are not the observations of a fan.

    Defeat doesn't finish a man - quit does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits. - Richard Nixon

    Ron Sanders

  • You opinions are interesting, but are all speculation since Jimbo has done nothing as a head coach. While on the other hand Urban has been successful everywhere he has been as a head coach and has proven regardless of his staff that he can win.

    mogator920

  • Ronnie Sanders, your opinions are the most biased I've ever heard.

    According to you the guys you've coaches with Ron Zook and Jimbo Fisher are all world. Just because you worked with them doesn't make it so. You can believe it, that's nice but don't even try to use your experience in the field as something that gives you a better perspective. In your case it doesn't.

    Case in point, you say Ron Zook wins how many games this year because he finally has a good staff after 3 years at Florida and 5 at Illinois. That he's a great coach and you rattle off all the other excuses that you and Zook have dreamed up to defend his record.

    There is no defense for it yet you state you know better. Come on, you have the most prejudice opinion I've ever heard in my life. I wish you well, but you're so biased that it is difficult to respect your opinions.

    Maybe stirring up crap draws more interest I don't know. When it comes to Florida and Urban Meyer I let him stand on his record as a coach at his three stops vs a man (Jimbo Fisher) who has yet to coach a football game.

    Give me a break

    Swampie

  • "We talk to different people. The folks I talk to, in college and the NFL, think FSU has a far superior staff right now. We're not talking about Florida's staff last year. We're talking right now. There are some guys who don't belong. That's all I'm saying"

    Wait! Three years ago when Jimbo came in, ref$u had touted their staff as the greatest in the history of college football - and now - despite their record in the past three years - they are better?

    g8rnbft

  • said...

    You put words in my mouth. I make no excuses for Ron Zook at Illinois. The last two years have been terrible. I admit that. There's no excuse for it. He would tell you the same thing. There are tons of guys I've never worked with that I think are terrific coaches: Chip Kelly, Rick Neuheisel, Ellis Johnson, John Neal, etc...

    You're arguing against a point that I'm not trying to make. Urban Meyer is a great coach. I'm not disputing that. I'm not comparing Jimbo Fisher to Urban Meyer, past tense. I'm comparing what I think is going to happen going forward. If I were a betting man, I think Jimbo Fisher and FSU will be more successful than Urban Meyer and Florida over the next 5 to 7 years. That's all I'm saying. And I've given you the reasons why.

    Defeat doesn't finish a man - quit does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits. - Richard Nixon

    Ron Sanders

  • Not the defensive side

    Defeat doesn't finish a man - quit does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits. - Richard Nixon

    Ron Sanders

  • What is funny as heck is Meyer has been the best recruiter in Div-1 football the past five years... LMAO

    WHO - 2010 - 2009 - 2008 - 2007 - 2006
    Scout - - 1st - - 21st - 12th - - 1st -- 2nd
    Rivals - - 2nd - - 11th - 3rd - - 1st - - 2nd
    ESPN - - 1st - - 5th -- 4th - - 2nd - - 1st

    No one has recruited better. But I guess now we have to move aside.

    When Florida has another huge season, and they will, they will get plenty of the top guys. And a lot of their three-star commitments will get a better look as the season rolls along and become four-star guys.

    That's just the way it works.

    Swampie

  • We'll see

    Swampie

  • Recruiting rankings mean nothing. The results he has produced on the field are impressive.

    Defeat doesn't finish a man - quit does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits. - Richard Nixon

    Ron Sanders

  • what results?

    FSU was 28th in total offense last year, Florida was 6th. FSU did it in the ACC, the Gators in the SEC.

    For Jimbo Fisher to be successful at FSU he will have to have some big seasons really quick. You know Meyer had the National Championship in year two that kick started his career at Florida, the Heisman winner in year three didn't hurt.

    Because of talent on hand I think FSU will have a so so year Jimbo's first season. The talent just isn't there for a big season. Ponder moves on they have a good backup but it will be his first year on the job, he is no Tim Tebow.

    The problem that faces Jimbo is two fold in my opinion.

    He will need to get it going relatively quickly if he doesn't there will be a backlash at FSU because of the way Bobby Bowden was pushed out. If he doesn't succeed quickly the grumbling will get there faster than stink on an old Nole.

    Because the expectations are up, getting a commitment from a James Wilder might actually hurt. The perception of we're coming back needs to be met with success on the field. They need to beat Oklahoma and get off to a fast start to continue that momentum, early losses and you'll see guys like Wilder looking at other schools.

    And getting that success is going to be very hard to do. A new coach can not go out and play one single down. FSU is average at best personnel wise on defense, in the trenches they are undersized on both sides of the ball. FSU scored their first points against Florida last year at the end of the third quarter, a field goal to make it 30-3. With 6:03 left in the fourth quarter against Florida's scrubs and their water boys they scored their only TD to finish the game 37-10.

    Last season FSU allowed more points in all the ACC games and the Florida game than those teams averaged for the season.

    Pts allowed by FSU - Average Pts scored for the Season - Team

    38 - 30.3 - Miami

    49 - 33.7 - Georgia Tech

    27 - 23.7 - North Carolina

    42 - 30.3 - NC State

    40 - 31.1 - Clemson

    28 - 26.3 - Wake Forest

    26 - 21.3 - Maryland

    37 - 35.8 - Florida

    They just don't have the talent. They don't have the depth.

    Those are the two issues I see, Jimbo needs to show big improvement quickly to keep the momentum going, yet he doesn't have the talent on hand to do so.

    Swampie

  • There's no denying that Urban Meyer is an outstanding coach and recruiter and I completely understand everyone here calling Ronnie a homer for his opinions but aren't you guys just as guilty as Gator fans? You act as if there is absolutely no redeeming quality in Jimbo Fisher whatsoever simply because he coaches FSU. You won't give credit where its due. I'm fully aware of the fact that he hasn't coached a game yet, but as far as putting a program and infrastructure in place he's done an outstanding job thus far.

    Despite what a few ppl have said, Fisher has not had the type of control over things that people like to think. Last season FSU had only 4 coaches that were actually working hard on the recruiting trail and while we didn't pull in the Gators all-star #1 dream class, we did pretty damn good. Let's think about it, Meyer does a great job, I won't take that away from him, but Fisher is doing what he's doing on the recruiting trail when FSU's record dating back to 2006 is 30-22. Without winning on the field we're pulling in top 15 and top 10 classes in the nation and if we finish this cycle strong it could again be very good.

    I'm a football fan, a Seminole without a doubt and I have my biases but FSU will never beat UF just because "my team is inherently, magically better than yours" and the same goes true for UF. You guys have whipped us because our staff fell asleep at the wheel and let an insane amount of things get outta hand, while conversely Urban Meyer has been on his A+ game is does an outstanding job. He is an elite coach and ours was in his twilight, barely paying attention. Aside from trying to build a winning program, Fisher and his staff has to repair a damaged program as well. It won't happen over night, but if you've been following anything at all its hard to pretend (UF fan or not), that Jimbo Fisher hasn't done a lot of positive things and is headed in the right direction.

    truenole87

  • Jimbo has done a lot of positive things but he still hasn't coached a game as a head coach, much less a season so any way you cut it, the jury is out. Once Jimbo has a track record of winning championships over a period of time, then it will be safe to make comparisons. Until he's proven something, however, he's a new coach with a good plan for getting the job done.

    Email: franzbeard@gmail.com/Twitter: www.twitter.com/@franzbeard247

    Franz Beard ●

Florida
247Sports
Features
Resources
Connect

247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports