Online Now 540

Alligator Alley

For Gators Fans Only. What's said on the Alley, stays on the Alley

Online now 516
Record: 5026 (1/15/2014)

Reply

Jimbo Fisher 1, Urban Meyer 0

  • I believe Fisher is not only equal to Meyer in recruiting but in evaluating recruits as well.

  • FSU may not have depth, but they have talent and the performance of the defense last year is 100% indicative of how bad the coaching had gotten. FSU is 96th in the nation in total defense. If you believe that there are 96 defenses in the nation with better talent than FSU are you incredibly delusional. That's lack of preparation and understanding and nothing else.

  • Franz Beard said... (original post)

    Jimbo has done a lot of positive things but he still hasn't coached a game as a head coach, much less a season so any way you cut it, the jury is out. Once Jimbo has a track record of winning championships over a period of time, then it will be safe to make comparisons. Until he's proven something, however, he's a new coach with a good plan for getting the job done.

    But in the mean time is it not okay to measure head to head battles? A gator fan may not like it, but FSU getting JWJ after everyone had basically conceded him to UF is a true recruiting victory. Just like UF getting Percy Harvin or Clemson stealing C.J Spiller from both of us. Its a situation where a school that was a favorite, got beat out . .. is that not true?

    We can't compare on field success yet obviously but in recruiting its kind of hard to ignore. Had Urban Meyer gotten Christian Green or Christian Jones last year, Gators would be saying the same thing. This was a head to head recruiting battle.

  • " I believe Fisher is not only equal to Meyer in recruiting but in evaluating recruits as well. "

    WOW!!!!!!!!! Someone is drinking a little too much of the Jimbo kool-aid don't ya think. Its amazing that he is this good and his record as a head coach is 0-0.

    signature image

    BABA BOOEY!

  • TDGATOR said... (original post)

    " I believe Fisher is not only equal to Meyer in recruiting but in evaluating recruits as well. "

    WOW!!!!!!!!! Someone is drinking a little too much of the Jimbo kool-aid don't ya think. Its amazing that he is this good and his record as a head coach is 0-0.

    What does his 0-0 record have to do with recruiting and evaluating?

  • I've said all along that getting James Wilder was a recruiting victory and it was a bigger get for FSU than it was a loss for Florida because the Seminoles are trying to come back from mediocrity while Florida is sitting on top and has a loaded roster thanks to five straight top five recruiting classes. Jimbo is going to have to win more than his share of the battles, however, and Florida State is going to have to become a factor once again both for championships and as a serious possible destination for the top recruits in the country.

    It's fine to say he beat Urban Meyer for James Wilder and he beat Urban for Christian Jones and Christian Green although both of them were Seminole legacies so the fact that they came down to a Florida-Florida State decision says something about where Florida is and where Florida State isn't.

    But here's further reality --- Urban Meyer gets in the door of houses that Jimbo isn't getting into right now and it shows in the fact that less than third of the players FSU landed last year had a committable offer from the Gators and very few of Florida's number one ranked recruiting class even gave FSU a moment's thought. I'm sure that's going to change in that Jimbo will get into more front doors as he proves himself as a coach on the field, but if Meyer continues to win at the pace he's been winning (95-19 in nine years), Florida's recruiting isn't going to drop off. Jimbo's got a lot of catching up to do to have a roster in a perpetual reload mode and he's also going to have to battle the perception (true) that the ACC is a weak sister conference. As long as the SEC keeps winning national championships, it's going to consistently get the best players in the country.

    Email: franzbeard@gmail.com/Twitter: www.twitter.com/@franzbeard247

  • There's more to this game than recruiting and evaluating. See Ron Zook. Lets see what he does with this superior talent and superior evaulating. Gotta coach em up on Saturdays.

    signature image

    BABA BOOEY!

  • Zook could recruit. Evaluating isn't his strong point however.

  • Ok but that's my point, why is it a big deal that UF finished second for Green and Jones? Shouldn't it say something about where FSU is headed if they actually WON Wilder?

    And like you said, Meyer gets into those doors because he coaches a winning program. FSU has been damn near .500 in 3 of the last 4 seasons and still pulls in quality recruiting classes dating back to 2008. Everyone is blowing the talent gap between UF and FSU out of proportion. The issue at FSU has been development and structure more so than the ability to bring in the right players. That's what is expected to be the biggest difference in Fisher and Bowden of the last decade.

  • TDGATOR said... (original post)

    There's more to this game than recruiting and evaluating. See Ron Zook. Lets see what he does with this superior talent and superior evaulating. Gotta coach em up on Saturdays.

    I think we're aware that there's more to coaching than recruiting and evaluating. But Jimbo Fisher has coached quite a few first round draft picks and engineered some very successful offenses so I think he knows a thing or two about coaching as well. I'm sure Gators don't care to hear this, but you don't work on Nick Sabans staff in any capacity if you don't know what you're doing.

  • Just because you worked as a position coach or a coordinator under a great coach doesn't exactly translate into success as a head coach. Of Bear Bryant's assistant coaches who became head coaches --- and that numbers somewhere around 40 --- very few were truly successful. Gene Stallings and Danny Ford both won national championships but their titles are tainted with NCAA probation.

    Now, granted, Jimbo has worked for Nick Saban but why should Gators be afraid of someone just because he's worked for Nick? Last time I checked, Florida is 1-1 against Nick at Alabama and both Urban and Nick each have a national championship following their win. Of course, this is the same Nick Saban, who with Jimbo Fisher as his offensive coordinator, scored all of seven points against Ron Zook and Florida in 2003, the same year that LSU won the national championship.

    Now, I think Jimbo is going to do very well, but he's still got to prove he can be a head coach. You could say the same thing about nearly every head coach in Division I --- at some point he was successful either as a coordinator or a position coach --- but that doesn't always translate into success as a head coach.

    Again, I think Jimbo has good coaching bloodlines and can be successful, but before we anoint him as equal to or better than a coach with the best winning percentage of any head coach in the country (that's Urban) --- a coach who has an undefeated season and two 13-1 national championship seaons to his credit --- how about letting him prove himself on the field?

    Email: franzbeard@gmail.com/Twitter: www.twitter.com/@franzbeard247

  • I don't think anyone said anything about "being scared" of Jimbo and the reference was to his ability to coach the game, which consensus among most outside of rival fan bases is that he has the ability to do so. I don't recall anyone anointing him or calling him a better coach. The recurring theme that I've noticed with Gators and their argument against Jimbo is that no matter WHAT the subject is, all you can seem to bring up is the fact that he hasn't coached a game yet. He wins a recruiting battle and you bring the argument to an entirely different level out of insecurity. No Jimbo has not coached yet, we get it, that horse has been beat to death. But Coach Fisher has proven several things to warrant the high expectations for his coaching career.

    1. He's proven that he has the ability to develop a quarterback and he's done so on several occasions. Christian Ponder is a former 3* QB now up for Heisman consideration.

    2. He's proven he can pull in quality recruiting classes despite working for a program that has not had recent on field success.

    3. He's proven the ability to recognize good coaching and surround himself with a competent and quality staff.

    4. He's shown a value for organizational structure and process. As well as the effort and desire necessary to compete at the elite level of major college football.

    His success won't come over night but he's laid the groundwork. We get it, he hasn't coached yet, but for you to speak in absolutes as if Urban Meyer is an almighty invincible coach makes you just as big of a homer as anyone else. You don't know that Jimbo Fisher will never be able to beat Urban Meyer anymore than I know that he will be able to.

  • Insecurity? Oh please. Now you've done it and made me laugh.

    Email: franzbeard@gmail.com/Twitter: www.twitter.com/@franzbeard247

  • What other reason would there be for you to completely dismiss the notion of Urban Meyer losing to Jimbo Fisher? It might not happen in 2010, but you say with confidence that FSU will never be on a level playing field or reach glory days again which in itself sounds to me like wishful thinking much more than it does objective observation. In a perfect Gator world, perhaps FSU would continue to suffer in mediocrity, but realistically speaking, with the right leadership and structure in place its only a matter of time before the rivalry is again respectable and even.

  • And what reason is there to think that Jimbo Fisher can do it? Just because he won a recruiting battle? Oh please. Spare me.

    I think he will do well but it's one recruiting battle that he's won. He hasn't beaten Urban Meyer on the playing field yet and the talent gap between the two programs is canyonesque. Maybe you don't think so, but the people who scout for the NFL do.

    Jimbo has a monumental task ahead of him. If you had asked me 10 years ago if FSU's program could slip this far, I would have laughed at you, but having watched the deterioration of the program the last six years, it's going to be a long, hard haul and it doesn't help that FSU is in the ACC. The turnaround would be more difficult in the short term in the SEC but the benefit would be getting superior athletes top to bottom of the recruiting classes.

    And, if Jimbo is as good as you say he is, then you better watch out because Les Miles just might not be at LSU next year and if he goes, you better believe Jimbo Fisher will be on the radar in Baton Rouge. And you better believe this --- if offered a top of the line SEC job, he would leave FSU in a heartbeat.

    Email: franzbeard@gmail.com/Twitter: www.twitter.com/@franzbeard247

  • I just listed the reasons Franz. And you can downplay it all you want, but JWJ isn't the first recruit that Jimbo got and Urban wanted.

    What you should realize is that the deterioration of FSU's program isn't some impossible feat. It could happen at UF or Bama or USC etc. You also put WAY too much stock into the ACC vs. SEC argument. It is a factor, but it isn't the magical gap between success and failure. Are Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Arkansas or even UGA better programs overall in the last 20 years than FSU? No. And they all play in the SEC. The SEC extremely top heavy and the rest of the teams benefit from the success of UF, Bama and occasionally LSU and UGA. FSU is still one of the best jobs in the country due to location, tradition, facilities etc.

  • Going back 20 years are we? How about 18 in the ACC.

    Your Noles lost two games in the ACC the first nine seasons, the second nine you lose 25. The last four seasons your spear chuckers have gone 16-16 in conference play, that's real wins and loses not after the NCAA math is applied.

    This is in the mighty ACC over 18 years. In 17 years in the SEC Steve Spurrier and Urban Meyer totaled 119-22. There is no doubt the SEC is more difficult.

    So where is the insecurity?

    The idiotic claim of Jimbo 1, Meyer 0 reeks with insecurity. Making comments like that is what you call diversionary tactics. Dazzle them with bull, try and throw them off with an insult but offer up no real stats to back up your claims.

    FSU's recruiting the past five years, rankings by the three main services.

    The facts are FSU has recruited well enough to be very competitive...

    WHO - 2010 - 2009 - 2008 - 2007 - 2006
    Scout - - 9th - 18th - - 8th - - 33rd - 12th
    Rivals - - 10th - 7th - - 9th - - 21st - 3rd
    ESPN - - 6th - 8th - - 12th -- 25th - 6th

    Signed... Average Ranking
    2010 - 24 - 8.3
    2009 - 21 - 11.0
    2008 - 30 - 9.7
    2007 - 20 - 26.0
    2006 - 31 - 7.0

    The facts are for FSU - AP - USA

    2009 - not in the top 25
    2008 - 21st - 23rd
    2007 - not in the top 25
    2006 - not in the top 25
    2005 - 23rd - 23rd

    It just isn't getting done in Tally...

  • And what is this CRAP about Ponder being a Heisman Trophy candidate! That's funny as hell.

    Ponder has 29 TD passes in his career with 22 INTs! That's horrible. Last season he had 14 TDs with 7 INTs.

    If Jimbo Fisher is so great, then why was Ponder's QB rating was 147.7.

    Tebow had 16 INTs in his career vs 88 TD passes. The most INTs he had in any season in his career was his sophomore season, six. Tebow's QB rantings were from '07 to '09- 172.47, 172.37, 168.17...

    Ponder was 4-5 last season as a starter. He's a three-star QB who's playing just like a three-star QB.

    Where do you people come up with this BS....

  • I think I pointed out the fact that recruiting wasn't the problem in several post. Also remember that the idiotic claim of Jimbo 1, Meyer 0 was made by Bianchi who hates the Seminoles more than beat writer around.

    I've said numerous times in this very thread that FSU's problem was coaching, not talent. The talent claim is what you guys have been spewing the entire time. You can bring in all the great high school talent you want but if they don't develop and progress from year to year and aren't put in a scheme that's advantageous and beneficial to their skill set, they'll look like garbage in college and that's what has been going on at FSU for the last 9 solid years. You keep posting information that everyone has already discussed at length, we know what the recruiting classes have been, we know what the results on the field have been. So, when it comes to making a very very basic formula for winning can we agree that both coaching and players need to be good? FSU has had good players, a lot of them. And a lot of them have been wasted by coaches like Jeff Bowden, Jodi Allen, Chuck Amato, Dexter Carter and unfortunately a DC in Mickey Andrews who wanted to retire after his son blew his brains out in 2007 but was begged to come back. Our scheme has been outdated, our program was still following and going through the motions it did 10 years ago when obviously, the landscape of CFB has completely changed. Ironically, when FSU changes to a coaching staff with modernized coaching and a better understanding of how to be successful today, UF fans still expect the exact same results. If Bobby Bowden and his staff had come back for another year, it would make sense. But you don't change as many factors and variables as FSU has and continue to get the same results.

    Again, your ACC vs. SEC argument continues to fall on def ears because your entire rant didn't present any new information. FSU as a PROGRAM struggled and because of that, they lost games. Overall, the SEC is a better conference than the ACC, this is not groundbreaking news. But FSU is a better football program/coaching job and opportunity than the MAJORITY of SEC teams. Its not a better job than UF, Alabama etc. But the argument can be made for literally every other team in that conference because of the reasons I listed. Believe it or not, every team, coach, fan, player won't just wither away and die if they aren't in the SEC. Also note that I said the last 20 years and you posted the last 5, which are most popularly known for being the "lost decade" for FSU. Success at Florida State could've continued without much of a hiccup through the past decade if Coach Bowden didn't hire his son and actually bothered looking for a competent replacement for Mark Richt. Our recent failure isn't indicative of some inherent failure that FSU is destined to have, its plain negligence and lazy work by those in charge of the program. It would happen at UF if Urban Meyer got sloppy, it would happen at Bama if Saban got sloppy. I use the word "insecurity" when I describe Gators because you speak as if they universe owes you the satisfaction of continuing to see FSU fail. We fixed the whole in the ship and you guys will reach and grasp at every single excuse you can think of as to why we'll continue to fail. Its all wishful thinking. The fact is that SO FAR, Jimbo Fisher is making the right moves and you're HOPING he sucks as a head coach, but you're not sure in the least.

  • Swampie said... (original post)

    And what is this CRAP about Ponder being a Heisman Trophy candidate! That's funny as hell.

    Ponder has 29 TD passes in his career with 22 INTs! That's horrible. Last season he had 14 TDs with 7 INTs.

    If Jimbo Fisher is so great, then why was Ponder's QB rating was 147.7.

    Tebow had 16 INTs in his career vs 88 TD passes. The most INTs he had in any season in his career was his sophomore season, six. Tebow's QB rantings were from '07 to '09- 172.47, 172.37, 168.17...

    Ponder was 4-5 last season as a starter. He's a three-star QB who's playing just like a three-star QB.

    Where do you people come up with this BS....

    Have you read anything, anywhere at all about College Football this off-season? You must be the last person on earth that has heard this news. Christian Ponder has a 68.8% completion percentage and only passed for 100 yards less than Tebow despite playing in only 9 games to Tebows 13. Also, The Heisman trophy isn't an award given based on career performance, so posting all of Tebow and Ponder's stats dating back to 2007 is completely irrelevant. It's also not supposed to be a team award. There's no secret that FSU was a bad football TEAM last year, but Christian Ponder was still an outstanding Quarterback which is why he's one of the top QB's on draft boards this season as well as up for the Heisman. That fact will remain no matter how many stats you post and temper tantrums you throw.

  • truenole87 said... (original post)

    I just listed the reasons Franz. And you can downplay it all you want, but JWJ isn't the first recruit that Jimbo got and Urban wanted.

    True. But I would say the "Jimbo Fisher 1, Urban Meyer 0" scorecard is a little disingenuous as well. Heck, FSU didn't even beat Florida 1-0 on Wednesday.

  • Justin Wells said... (original post)

    True. But I would say the "Jimbo Fisher 1, Urban Meyer 0" scorecard is a little disingenuous as well. Heck, FSU didn't even beat Florida 1-0 on Wednesday.

    I think its obvious that the headline itself is just to stir the pot. Its just funny to me how there's a complete inability for gators to admit how badly they wanted Wilder in their class all of a sudden because he chose FSU. Its the same thing for every recruit that picks FSU and had a commitable offer from UF. Always some random excuse, no matter who you're referring to.

    Pulled their schollys
    Bert Reed
    Greg Reid

    Didnt beat Meyer; would have been Gators if Strong didn't leave
    Christian Jones
    Jeff Luc
    LaMarcus Joyner

    Legacy so it doesnt count
    Christian Green

    Didnt have committable offers anyway
    Rashad Greene
    Bobby Hart
    Tyler Hunter

    Only wanted him at LB and he wants to play RB
    James Wilder Jr

    No matter who it is, there will always be some excuse .

  • A verbal commitment in August is not the same as a signed LOI in February. The Fat Lady is yet to sing. We shall see.

  • A verbal commitment in August is not the same as a signed LOI in February. The Fat Lady is yet to sing. We shall see.

  • truenole87 said... (original post)

    I think its obvious that the headline itself is just to stir the pot. Its just funny to me how there's a complete inability for gators to admit how badly they wanted Wilder in their class all of a sudden because he chose FSU. Its the same thing for every recruit that picks FSU and had a commitable offer from UF. Always some random excuse, no matter who you're referring to.

    Pulled their schollys Bert Reed Greg Reid

    Didnt beat Meyer; would have been Gators if Strong didn't leave Christian Jones Jeff Luc LaMarcus Joyner

    Legacy so it doesnt count Christian Green

    Didnt have committable offers anyway Rashad Greene Bobby Hart Tyler Hunter

    Only wanted him at LB and he wants to play RB James Wilder Jr

    No matter who it is, there will always be some excuse .

    How funny!

    Florida did indeed pull the scholarship offers on Bert Reed and Greg Reid.

    FSU beat Florida fair and square on Christian Jones, Jeff Luc and LaMarcus Joyner and indeed Christian Green is a Seminole legacy. Of those four, Florida really wanted Jones and Joyner. I think the Gators will miss Green a bit now that Adrian Coxson has gotten homesick and transferred back to Maryland, although at the time Coxson was a far better pickup. I honestly don't think Florida's staff was particularly upset about losing Luc.

    Nobody has said that Florida only wanted James Wilder at linebacker. The only thing I've said and most of the people who know what they are talking about have said is that he's a better linebacker than running back and if you've seen him play in person then you know that to be true.

    You're really boring with your silly arguments.

    Email: franzbeard@gmail.com/Twitter: www.twitter.com/@franzbeard247